Please, tell me in Journal
- Sept. 24, 2023, 10:57 a.m.
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- Public
who is more responsible?
The tween who makes a bad decision, or their parents?
I’m continually blown away by the blindness of otherwise reasonable and responsible people to parental responsibility.
Gen z is estranged from their parents at all time highs- over 25%! And who out there is asking what in the world did their parents do? I’ve heard not one. Not one. It’s just “look at how sad, pitiful, ungrateful, selfish, uncaring, etc gen z is!” And, yes, sure. Let’s look at that. But let’s also ask, who is more responsible?
It’s really quite something. There is no other relationship in this universe that has more of a power disparity. Not even brutally aggressive criminals and their victims. Parents have more power and authority over their children than violent criminals have over their victims. Yet almost without exception, the accepted and expected attitude is “something is wrong with you if you aren’t grateful for and happy with your parents”. If there is something wrong with the parent -child relationship, we automatically blame the child. “How sad”, “his poor mum”, “he cut off his parents bc of that!?”
We blame the child. It’s always the child, unless something truly and undeniably traumatic justifies them.
This is the same as blaming the victim of rape. Worse, actually, because of the aforementioned unmatched power dispary. Whatever the victim of rape has to say about her rapist, we listen to with sympathy and support. But not children.
Never for the child.
lemonlime ⋅ September 24, 2023
Curious about the data. It does seem like a more common occurrence for gen z to detach from family and I have the same reaction as you mentioned above. What a shame. Are they so selfish that they have no energy for the parents who raised them on such a scale? Is it the lack of dopamine in such exchanges, as compared to social media attention? Detached from reality, is my guess. and get off my lawn!
Miss Chiffs Manager lemonlime ⋅ September 24, 2023
I'm curious if you think that parents or parenting has any impact on this outcome? And of course, who has more responsibility for this outcome?
lemonlime Miss Chiffs Manager ⋅ January 10, 2024
I'm looking back at this much later, kind of shocked at my answer. My father was an abusive narcissist. An awful person who did awful things. We were all but estranged until I was called near the end to show up for him, medically. Of course he had no one else. I did this for many months until his death, but felt nothing. Complete apathy. His fault. Completely. However, I've raised my children as well as possible and we are a super close family. If my adult children detached from me it would wreck me. I think I frame this around my own kids and not my experience with my father. My corrected answer is...the parents have major responsibility and should reap what they sow. apologies for late response.
Miss Chiffs Manager lemonlime ⋅ January 10, 2024
Wow, I am just so sorry to hear that about your dad. Do you think your response was in part to justify/defend the sick dad you took care of?
I'm jc and feel free not to answer. But I really do feel tons of sympathy for your childhood.
lemonlime Miss Chiffs Manager ⋅ January 11, 2024
As I told him once when from his near-death bed he began a conversation about his "many mistakes"
..."that was between him and his God." I couldn't forgive him at that time, and have since only to release it from living in my head and heart. I have no feelings for him of any kind and I recognize that this took a lifetime of trying or hoping and being met with his incapability and selfishness/mental illness. The care I arranged and the time I spent at the end was for me. I was a human who was tasked with making decisions/showing up for another human. That was all. Also he left this earth with only debt. Obviously, lol.
Miss Chiffs Manager lemonlime ⋅ January 11, 2024
Yeeshe. He sounds horrible.
And my heart aches for you in that circumstance.
My mom chose a similar path; she interacted with and cared for her mother at the end of her life and through illness. It was explicitly my mom's decision. But... It was a decision that profoundly affected her, and likewise affected us, her children and and family. My mom has only shame and derision for anyone expressing their negative experience of her decision.
Not that everyone making that decision is horrible, undoubtedly not. It's just a similar parallel in our experience. And I had wondered if there was anything similar as to how the decision might be defended.
lemonlime Miss Chiffs Manager ⋅ January 11, 2024 (edited January 11, 2024)
Edited
I do know that it must have been hard on my girls when I chose to check on him (he was hospitalized and later in a medicaid accepting nursing home) and to visit him regularly to advocate for him because when you're on medicaid as he was, the care facilities and the care can sometimes be substandard. And it was. I have no doubt that his abusive nature may have contributed to his level of care in that place. Regardless, I believe in dignity and standard of care for those who can't for themselves. Back to the point--my young girls, wise beyond their years were quite understanding about it and loving. Makes me teary to think about. Sweet girls.
Miss Chiffs Manager lemonlime ⋅ January 11, 2024
We all must make these decisions, at some point.
I have already made mine. I will not enable abusive people. I do think that people in general deserve humane care. But, as you've alluded to, people can choose to treat others so badly that they are unwilling to provide that care to them. Everything is a choice. I refuse to subsidize my mom's disgraceful behavior in order to provide her with a standard that she chose not to pursue.
I'm sorry about your daughter's experience. Have you asked them, openly, how your decisions impacted them?
I was also very supportive of my mom's decision (although I had no choice) at the time that she had parental authority over me. So forgive me of having some skepticism that their expressions were genuine. It is in the child's nature to do whatever affords them the best parent possible. If that means stuffing away the anger, resentment, justified indignation of being put second or lower on the decision tree, they will do it. If it means being glowingly sweet about the decisions that actively reduce parental resources, they will do it. It is not a small task to separate the individual child in front of us from the nature of the child, or humanity. But it is necessary, to find out who they are. And for them to recognize who they are.
lemonlime Miss Chiffs Manager ⋅ January 11, 2024
Here's the thing. We're a society that pretends to embrace mental illness and mental unwellness. We support and help and champion people today for recognizing the need and asking for help. I'm not sure where the line is. I do believe my father was mentally unwell. I believe his illness caused his abusiveness which was emotional/hostility for the most part. Either we support humans with mental illness or we don't. Our government has largely abandoned them, as evidenced by the hordes of homeless addicts proliferating our cities. Should we? Because they are angry? I don't know. I'm not debating with a position, I'm just pointing out the inequity present on the topic. In THEORY we care and support mentally ill folks. In life, we tend to abandon them. We=most people.
lemonlime Miss Chiffs Manager ⋅ January 11, 2024
Also, I'm sorry you went through that at a young age. Especially if it changed your home's peace or your mother's ability to parent. That's a real shame. We have to make such terrible decisions in this life, sometimes. I hope you never have to!
Miss Chiffs Manager lemonlime ⋅ January 11, 2024
Thank you for your sympathies. It did and does fundamentally affect her parenting and relationship to us (her children/family).
I understand the conundrum that you are battling with, here. However, I will just point out that our relationships in our personal lives create societal attitudes at large, not vice versa.
It is not that I do not support people with mental illness in my personal life. I go out of my way to find out how they are suffering, and if there is anything I can do for them. I do not define anything that is a choice as an illness, however.
If your dad was a narcissist, did he ever display behavior (even once) that was not in charactaristic of being a narcissist? Did he smile and be polite? Did he ever defer to someone else's preference? It could be a boss, a politician, a police officer, a cashier, it doesn't matter. If he did, then his behavior is 100% under his control, since he can choose not to act in characteristic with narcissistic behavior at any time.
I don't support or subsidize any bad behavior in any personal relationship that I have, where there is choice. I err on the side of caution, being certain that mental illness, where claimed as a reason for behavior, is in fact a choice. Mental illness without choice is extraordinarily rare. It's my opinion that if we are to live in a society where the mental illness is truly cared for, we need to identify and ostracize the assholes who merely pose as having mental illness.
lemonlime Miss Chiffs Manager ⋅ January 11, 2024
You have made such salient points, here. The answers to your questions are less black and white than I'd like them to be. Obviously, I agree to a point because I removed and estranged and blocked him from my life. In retrospect... had I not answered the call to show up in the eleventh hour, I am not sure it would have made much difference. With his lack of ability to connect and care, how much did it really mean that I showed up? Experience and life have shaped my perspective, so I can't rethink it. I did the best I could for everyone involved. I do believe in protecting yourself and making your life a peaceful, boundaried (not a work, but you know) experience. Maybe I will be able to have the conversation with my daughters and tell them my more seasoned perspectives. Interesting reflection. probably therapy for me. how much do I owe ya?
Miss Chiffs Manager lemonlime ⋅ January 11, 2024 (edited January 11, 2024)
Edited
Haha
Thank you. And I appreciate your honesty and openness.
To be clear I'm not critical of your decision AT ALL. I admire your compassion and sacrifice. I have no clue what the "right" decision looks like for anyone in particular or in any particular situation. I just really love honest feedback and exploration. It is so rare that every glimpse into the inner life of another is like a sip of pure genuine humanity, for me.
I do think that both you and your daughters will benefit from a conversation about this. If nothing else, they will learn how much you consider them in very difficult decisions. And that can only being you closer.
lemonlime Miss Chiffs Manager ⋅ January 11, 2024
& Thank you for the kind comment!
Jodie ⋅ September 24, 2023
I find as the generations get get older they seem to be more independent and not wanting to ask for help. And this is what is said about the Generation Z...
Generation Z or iGen: Born 1997–2010
While still "youngsters" and not old enough to have made their mark as a generation, Generation Z kids are the first to be born into a world where they know nothing else besides being constantly connected to one another, albeit through phones, screens, and tablets.