It Can't Be Easy in Public
- Dec. 2, 2014, 5:01 p.m.
- |
- Public
To be married to or date a crossdresser. I mean, for some people, maybe…but I think most folks would have some problems. Since you read me, you can’t have too big of an issue with a guy in a dress, but it would probably be tough to be in a relationship with someone like me.
Friends? Not a problem Many women think it is kind of neat
Lovers? Then things get complicated.
Regardless of how cool and tolerant people are, it is different when it is your partner. I have asked some of my most supportive friends if they could date a crossdresser and most of them were honest and said it would be tough.
From what I have read, most crossdresser relationships are doomed. I think this is largely because they are revealed too late in the relationship. She finds your stash of clothes? Not a great way to open a dialogue. People don’t like being lied to, even lying through omission. The partner may feel cheated because they were attracted to what they thought a person was and then discover they are something else.
Even beyond possible deceptions, there is other pitfalls. Many questions can arise, things like:
- Am I not enough woman for him, so he dresses up?
- Can I respect him as a man?
- Does he want gender reassignment?
- Is he going to borrow my clothes and stretch them out?
- What if he is prettier/girlier than me?
- (insert additional questions here)
Communication is key. Boundaries need to be established and respected. I there is a message board I go to sometimes and they have a section for spouses of crossdressers to speak anonymously. Some of them are heartbreaking.
One woman felt that after she accepted him, he stopped accepting her. He made it all about his girly things and would not let her in to bathroom to get ready and just stopped doing many of the things she loved him for. He stopped being a considerate, sensitive guy and turned into a bit of a bitch.
The one I think of a lot (even 10 years later) though is a story where her man was determined to play the female role in bed and only the female role. She loved being with a man in bed, afterall, she was a hetero woman and not attracted to other women. However, now, she was always on top. He would spread his legs and sometimes wrap them around her. He was 100% submissive and wanted to be touched like a woman. She really wanted a man in bed. Just a good hard fucking from time to time, you know? She was ok with his submissive role, as long as sometimes she got what she wanted. Not an unreasonable request. After she accepted his feminine needs, he just stopped having sex like a man all together. She mentioned her concerns him and nothing changed. One day though, she thought they had turned the corner and he might be willing to indulge her. He threw her on the bed, climbed on top and gave her a good hard fuck. She was so happy. It felt like her husband was back…until afterwards, her husband turned to her and said “see, that is what I want you to do to me”.
She cried. A lot. I feel so bad for this woman.
These stories have made me more respectful and considerate towards partners, but it also made me aware of many of the reservations women have with crossdressing or transgender partners. I wouldn’t do what either of those crossdressers above did, but I still imagine being with people like me can’t be easy.
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I am going to ask a question and please don’t think I am hitting on you, collectively. Ladies, if you are attracted to men, do you think you could be with someone like me? What struggles would you have? For the sake of the question, let’s say the guy is a pretty “normal guy” (whatever that means to you) with the exception of his crossdressing and some girly interests in addition to his manly ones. He tells you up front about his crossdressing and no deception is involved.
100% honesty please. I won’t get angry or not like you if you don’t think you could do it. I know some of you would be ok with it, and some would not. I am looking for an honest dialogue. I won’t be offended. I promise. I respect everyone’s thoughts and feelings on this.
If you have questions or want more info to help you answer, please feel free to ask. No judgement.
Last updated August 12, 2016
AppleGirl ⋅ December 02, 2014
I probably would not be interested in a guy like that mostly because I am not interested in "girly" stuff myself -- rarely get my hair done, nails, etc...can barely bare to dress up in an actual dress, etc...so it would be more of a lack of common interests. If my current husband said to me that he would be interested in cross dressing, I would first think he had lost his mind (because, afterall, we have been together for 20 years and he had never mentioned that desire or wish), but after that initial reaction, if it were in the privacy of our own home, I wouldn't really care, as long as his personality didn't change. If it involved telling the public/common friends/going out with him as a cross-dresser -- that would be really difficult. It wouldn't be what I had "signed up" for.
Miso Honey AppleGirl ⋅ December 02, 2014
Fair enough, I think a lot of women probably feel like this. Sounds reasonable and fair.
Not to speak for everyone, but personality typically wouldn't change, unless that was something he was hiding, as well.
Thanks for the answer. I am a new reader of yours, so I don't know you really well, but it is nice to know your thoughts.
Miso Honey AppleGirl ⋅ December 02, 2014
I told my wife 2 months into us dating. I think she wished it would go away.
She has gotten more accepting, but still wont has no interest in going out with me.
AppleGirl Miso Honey ⋅ December 03, 2014
But she still married you, so it doesn't bother her much, apparently? When you do go out dressed as a woman, who do you hang out with? I only ask this because pretty much either my hubby and I go out together or I hang out with a group of just women...And do you cross dress at home? All these questions! LOL...if it's too nosy, tell me so!! :)
Miso Honey AppleGirl ⋅ December 03, 2014
Not too nosy at all, ask any questions you may have, I am happy to answer and happy to talk about it in general. She has no problem with my crossdressing as long as she doesn't see it.
Most of the time I don't "fully" dress up, I mix masculine and feminine clothing or wear all feminine clothing and/or hair, but no makeup/boobs. I usually just shop or run errands. When I am fully dressed up, I have a friend who crossdresses too, so I hang out with him, his wife and their friends (whom have since become my friends as well), or my brother (who told me he was a crossdresser as well). It hasn't happened yet, but I have told several friends that are cool with it and I know they would welcome me.
However, i've always wanted for someone to think of me as "one of the girls" and all those people listed above know me as a man first and foremost. I wanted to try and get something close to the special bond that girl friends have. I actually put out an ad on Craiglist and met someone who has no problem treating a guy friend like a girl friend. It's pretty cool, but she lives out of town, so we don't get to meet up often.
I do crossdress at home. I find it unlocks different parts of my personality. It calms me down if I am stressed and make me feel more creative. I create comic books and usually am wearing at least partially female clothing whenever I write or draw.
fauna ⋅ December 02, 2014
I don't know if I will be able to put this in the right words... so bare (bear?) with me as I talk it out...
The obvious one is still getting to feel like a woman in bed... getting a good pounding and feeling like my man is a strong beefy man who can give it to me... these things are important to me and is like 99% of my initial attraction and what has kept me satisfied in the same sexual relationship for nearly 13 years now. So... say all of that is still there... no change in that...
The discomfort I imagine when I think about it (because how could I really know unless I lived it) is a weird competitive dynamic that is present in so many female-female relationships. Of not feeling like I get to be the "only" pretty one (because hello, I WANT TO BE THE ONLY PRETTY ONE)... of not being "worshipped" for the time and energy and effort I put into being attractive... of having to affirm my partner's beauty/style/efforts... Men are typically "easy" and "low maintenance" so with the addition of pretty clothes and pretty pearls and flawless make-up, do I admire/compliment/envy that of my partner as I do my friends? It would be a confusing territory of blending spouse with girlfriend.
I realize what I'm saying makes me out to be the egomaniacal, narcissistic, attention whore that we both already know that I am... but those are my initial thoughts on how it could possible make me feel in a negative way. Doesn't mean that's actually how it would play out... and maybe if my husband was remotely more interested in all things (or anything) girly we would have more in common. While I browse outfits he browses guns. :/
Miso Honey fauna ⋅ December 02, 2014
Makes total sense! Very well said.
Speaking personally, I still want to be the man in bed. I know that isn't the case for everyone, though.
I can understand the competitive dynamic, too. I actually found myself getting a little jealous at all the compliments my wife got at a recent Christmas party. I thought I looked good and was hoping someone would acknowledge it. I guess I have that wired into me as well.
I don't think anything you said presents you as a "egomaniacal, narcissistic, attention whore". It makes sense to me and I think they are not uncommon feelings. I thinks they are similar to a lot of women's potential concerns.
Thanks for sharing!
caffeinequeen ⋅ December 02, 2014
I'm sort of with the first noter because AUGH EFF THIS PHONE I'll respond from home later
Miso Honey caffeinequeen ⋅ December 02, 2014
I look forward to your insights.
sassafras ⋅ December 02, 2014
Hm. As a woman who is sexually attracted to both men and women, this is an interesting thing to think about. I think if I knew about it up front, I would be fine with it. Women dressing in men's clothing and being more "masculine" in bed (gender norms, blah) is really hot to me. So I assume it would be the other way around as well, but I wouldn't know until I was actually in that situation, I think.
Miso Honey sassafras ⋅ December 02, 2014
I figured those who like both genders might be an easier sell, but I realize it might not be for some.
It is hard to say what you would feel like unless you are in the situation, but it is interesting to think about and hear the thoughts of others. I think playing with gender roles can be fun.
sassafras Miso Honey ⋅ December 02, 2014
I totally agree!! Playing with gender roles is a blast, and there's something about it sexually that makes it really interesting (for me at least).
Miso Honey sassafras ⋅ December 02, 2014
Indeed, why limit yourself? I am happy playing the dominant role, but I don't think I would mind switching it up from time to time.
Florentine ⋅ December 02, 2014
This is a toughie, and I think it would be difficult from an emotional stand point. You can certainly let me know if I'm way off base, but I feel like I'd always worry. People are not accepting and are often unkind about things that are not comfortable with. I'm sure you've gotten your fair share of judgement, and it probably makes you feel like shit. I think it would be tough as a partner to both see that and to be the safe haven, you know? Maybe I just lack a strength of character, but I think it would be trying on any relationship to often feel worry about other people's reactions and interactions with your other half. With that said, I don't think it's a deal breaker, but it certainly merits open communication on both sides.
And, yes, the sex is obviously going to have a big impact. I don't think I'd mind bedroom exploration re: diversity of roles or clothing, but in the end, I am personally attracted to that easy confidence that makes for a good, often dominant--and in my case since I'm hetero, male--lover. And apparently for me, a good finger banging is necessary, haha!
Miso Honey Florentine ⋅ December 02, 2014
Not off base at all. That is really sweet to be concerned about judgmental assholes. One of my best friends in "real life" said something very similar. I think it is awesome that you even have that concern in a hypothetical partner.
Yes, communication is key, as with anything, right?
Sex is all preference too. I get where you are coming from, too. I am drawn to the male dominant role in sex, but wouldn't mind switching it up from time to time. In the case of the second example, I think his issues go much deeper and he is actually trans and uncomfortable with the masculine side in general.
Florentine Miso Honey ⋅ December 02, 2014
I'm kinda a super sensitive nurturer. I get anxious at the thought of other people (and animals!) suffering or being victims of cruelty. It sounds very Snow White or something, but to be honest, it's probably something that merits therapy!
Miso Honey Florentine ⋅ December 03, 2014
To an oustsider like me, it seems very sweet and endearing, but I am sure it is something you wish you could turn off from time to time.
Perpetually Plump ⋅ December 02, 2014
I feel like life is hard enough that I'm not sure I could date a cross dresser. How would I explain it to my daughter? What happens when she starts being picked on in school for her mom's boyfriend dressing like a girl? How do I explain it to my nieces and nephews? What do I tell my 92 year old grandma? I think how you dress has a big impact on how you act. My work place is casual and we have a very casual environment. Other jobs I've had to wear business wear and it was not nearly as laid back. When I'm wearing jeans and a t shirt, I act more laid back than when I'm wearing a suit. Would a cross dressing partner be the same way? Do you act masculine in male clothes and feminine in female clothes? I don't have girly girl friends, so it'd be hard for me to deal with waiting for someone to get dolled up before we could go out. I just feel like it'd be so complicated to date a cross dresser, because we'd be so different. Lastly, I think my biggest concern would be if one day he'd decide he wants to live full time as a woman instead of just dressing up sometimes. (I really love your thought provoking questions. They force me to explore a subject I've been fairly close minded about.)
Miso Honey Perpetually Plump ⋅ December 03, 2014
Honest statements and good questions, I like it!
I can't claim to answer for all crossdressers, but I will speak for myself and other who think like me. Most crossdressers I know of of only do it in certain company or situations where they feel safe. I personally would not go places with someone if it would make them uncomfortable. After all, it is an aspect of me, not the whole picture. I am also happy being a "normal" man for a majority of my life.
The school kids wouldn't know because they don't need to and I wouldn't pick a child up from school in a dress or anything. I know a lot of people are not ready for something like that. My parents don't know, because they don't have to. I see no benefit in telling them. Same thing with friends I think would not approve.
In my head (since I don't have children, yet), I think it would be kept from a child until they were old enough to understand. It would ideally be brought up as part of a greater conversation about differences, tolerance and understanding.
When dressed, I act a little differently, but not too much. Much like your dress code example. A bit different in personality, but you are still you. I find it unlocks different parts of my personality. It calms me down if I am stressed and make me feel more creative. I create comic books and usually am wearing at least partially female clothing whenever I write or draw.
Regarding your biggest concern, that is where communication is key. The partner need to know if they are a crossdresser like me or transgender and want to transition into life as a woman. If they don't know that already, they need to figure it out soon, because it is not fair to their girlriend/spouse
Did I any questions, or give more? I reread it and is a bit rambling, let me know if it doesn't make sense.
Perpetually Plump Miso Honey ⋅ April 18, 2018
Ohhhhhhhhh! This comment is the one I was referencing! And I am not trying to embarrass you or call you out or anything like that. I KNOW there are things in my life I said never ever to or felt a certain way and many years later, I did that very thing or changed my mind. Live is a funny little bitch though! Gotta love it!
Miso Honey Perpetually Plump ⋅ April 18, 2018
Reading my notes here makes me nauseous. It is what I was feeling at the time, but re-reading them reminds where I was at that time.
This entry. These notes. a fair amount of entries around this time, actually...
I wrote this entry after my wife had told me it was ok for me to keep some of my women's clothing in the apartment, and then threw them out when I was not at home. She was ripping up art I made for her and throwing it in my face. She was having an affair. As I was trying to leave, she pushed me down the stairs when I had my arms full.
I was trying to empathize and appeal to someone who hated me. I was practically begging her to love me, and I wrote this entry to try and understand why she felt that way.
Perpetually Plump Miso Honey ⋅ April 18, 2018
I want to hug you so badly. I am so sorry that your situation was so dire. It makes your escape from it all that much more magnificent.
Miso Honey Perpetually Plump ⋅ April 24, 2018
Thanks. I didn't think it would affect me so much, but when I re-read this, it hit me, and I was transported back in time.
caffeinequeen ⋅ December 02, 2014
Okay, I'm on an actual computer now.
I'm with the 1st noter in that I don't have too many stereotypically feminine interests (i hate to shop for clothes, my idea of makeup is Dr Pepper lip balm, and I would rather go to the dentist than get my hair cut...no exaggeration! Well, I mean for a cleaning, not for fillings/other work) so there would be the issue of relating to him in that way. Though it might be nice to have someone who IS interested in those things to help me out in the areas where I'm very sorely lacking!
To be completely honest, I think it would bother me a little bit. I think the earlier I knew, the less it would bother me. I can't even articulate WHY it would bother me, and it bothers me that it bothers me (side note: the word "bother" starts to look weird when repeated) because my whole mindset in life is that if you aren't hurting another person or an animal then knock yourself out. I wear pants on a daily basis, after all, so if a man wants to wear women's clothes in public or private then that's his prerogative.
But if all of my non-negotiables were present (sense of humor, smart, kind to both people and animals, polite), then if he wanted to crossdress, it would absolutely not be a deal breaker. He would have to understand that I might not be super into it, but I would support him.
Miso Honey caffeinequeen ⋅ December 03, 2014
Dr. Pepper lip balm? Why didn't I know of this and where can I get some?
Fair enough, don't let it bother you too much that it bothers you. Feelins don't have to make sense. We are setting the record for use of "bother" outside of a Winnie the Pooh cartoon.
I think your approach is sensible. It seems like it theory it could work if the guy was compatible enough and if there was open communication and boundaries were respected. Am I interpreting correctly?
Thanks for the honest feedback! I knew that I would get that from you :)
caffeinequeen Miso Honey ⋅ December 03, 2014
Dr Pepper lip balm is made by Bonne Bell and it is the TITS. It adds just the barest hint of color so I can smear it on with abandon and not worry about mirrors/going outside the lines/looking like I got hit with the whore gun (TM Homer Simpson). I occasionally have trouble finding it, so I always buy several whenever I see it. Target is always my best bet!
Miso Honey caffeinequeen ⋅ December 03, 2014
Awesome. I shall search it out! I know Target in Canada carries different stock from U.S. Target, but I will investigate. Thanks!
Shattered ⋅ December 03, 2014
I wouldn't have a problem. I don't dress girly so the downfall for him is they wouldn't be raiding MY closet lol.
Miso Honey Shattered ⋅ December 03, 2014
Nice!
I don't raid my wife's closet. If we were the same size, I would be tempted to, but wouldn't. So borrows bags and scarves from me, but I always make sure to ask if I borrow those from her.
I think for her, if items were spontaneously borrow, it might feel like stealing, but I view it as an affirmation of me having good taste and I am happy that my pretty things are heading out into the world.
isaidnoh ⋅ December 03, 2014
This is a tough questions. Since I know you personally, I view your cross-dressing as just another aspect of your personality, like you are blonde, and draw comics, and have a good sense of humour, and great fashion sense, etc.
I don't know how I would feel about dating/being married to someone who dresses. My husband has many feminine qualities, or rather, qualities I love about him that most people would consider more feminine (such as sensitivity), but he has zero fashion sense. If he was into dressing, it would be completely different from how you do it. (Since you seem very into the whole look, co-ordinating, etc. He tends to dress on days where he doesn't have to work in whatever happens to be clean).
I feel really terrible for the woman you mentioned, as her husband seemed to have pulled a bait-and-switch on her, and is acting like a selfish jerk. I read Savage Love regularly, and he talks a lot about indulging your partner's kinks, with the caveat that your partner should also be indulging yours. You said it was 10 years ago, I hope she has DTMFA and moved on to better.
Miso Honey isaidnoh ⋅ December 03, 2014
It is a tough question. I am glad I asked it, since I am getting so many interesting replies!
I think you look at it in a really healthy way. It is just a facet of the personality. I know my more feminine qualities are some of the biggest factors that drew my wife to me in the first place. She may not like the dressing, but appreciates what comes with it.
I get so angry at the examples I listed. Their wives were great enough to accept them when a lot of women would have just bailed. Then the husband pulls this kind of shit. It is unacceptable. I really hope the wives moved on.
I know I am thankful for every ounce of acceptance I get and don't try to push my luck.
Also, thanks for the compliments on humour/fashion. They made me :)
isaidnoh Miso Honey ⋅ December 03, 2014
You're welcome! I think you are awesome :)
I tend to worry about whether or not someone is a nice person when deciding if I like them or not. What kind of clothes they wear really isn't a factor. And it's great to have someone to dish about clothes with (even if it is just online!) None of my other friends care about shoes.
Miso Honey isaidnoh ⋅ December 03, 2014
You are awesome, too!
That is such an awesome, non-superficial way to look at people.
Glad to help with shoes/clothes at any point!
AlexYourAlterEgo ⋅ December 03, 2014
I'm late to this party, but here's my two cents:
I don't think I could deal with it long term. I have mentioned to you before about my high school boyfriend cross dressing. I was young and he was my first, so I didn't really have much of an opinion on it. I wasn't crazy about the idea, but wasn't about to tamp down his fantasy at a time when we were both trying to figure out what we enjoyed sexually.
When I think about my current relationship, and if my husband were to tell me that he was a cross dresser... I would be supportive, and would try very hard to continue that way... But I know me. I am selfish, and would definitely find myself focusing on how it affected ME, and how it made ME feel, instead of thinking of him. It would eat away at me until I decided I couldn't be around him anymore.
This is a horrible answer, but it's probably the truth. I'm an insecure, selfish person, which can ruin any relationship, let alone one with some delicate feelings and desires involved.
Miso Honey AlexYourAlterEgo ⋅ December 03, 2014
Fair enough. I love truthful answers and I can tell you thought about this. I think only a few people could handle it when faced with it. Thank you for sharing and providing some valuable insight.
Don't feel like it was a bad answer, it is as good and valid as any other.
Eriu ⋅ December 04, 2014
I'm not sure that I could date a cross dresser only because I think he'd put a lot more planning into his outfit and accessories than I would. I'm far too casual and will dress up only to a point. I usually pick clothes, even purses and shoes, on the basis of whether they can be washed in a load of laundry. On the other hand, I think it would be fun to have one as "one of the girls"; I have a friend who's beautiful but it takes her two hours to get ready, so I'm used to that in a friend. I don't know you in person, but I think it would be fun to hang out with you whether you were going out as female or male.
Miso Honey Eriu ⋅ December 04, 2014
Fair enough, it makes sense that if you are low-maintenance, a higher maintenance partner would not be super appealing.
I have always wanted to have a group of friends where I was "one of the girls". I think we would have a lot of fun if we got a chance to hang out.
rhizome ⋅ December 04, 2014
you probably already know how i feel about this, but i'm gonna reiterate it anyway. <3
dating a trans person or a crossdresser is sometimes difficult, but 100% of that difficulty is due to the fact that we live in a transmisogynistic world. trans people and crossdressers are fucking amazing humans and the world should be grateful that y'all choose to grace us with your beauty.
i don't understand what it's like to be a hetero lady, so i can't really weigh in on what that experience is like. i will say that you can be femme AND dominant, so most of the problems you're describing sound more like two people discovering they're submissive and therefore sexually incompatible. that can happen in any relationship, regardless of gender identity.
personally, i think dating a transfeminine genderqueer is fucking great. we can play dress-up together! i can paint his nails beautiful colors! i never know whether he's going to be lookin' hella fine in a button-down shirt, or else a plaid skirt and white tights! sometimes we have sex in different ways! when the world is crappy, i get to stand by his side and support him, which has brought us even closer together! we have amazing conversations about gender, which has given me hella insights! also did i mention that his eyeliner is the prettiest?!?!
Miso Honey rhizome ⋅ December 04, 2014
Yeah, I think it is fair to say I had a pretty good idea how you would respond ;)
You can be femme and dominant for sure! I just used the nomenclature the lady on the forum used. People ran with it. I wanted to invited discussion, so I felt the correcting word choice might seem like a dick move. I 1000% agree with your statement.
You left such a great note. I just keep re-reading it. You and Ringo are amazing. Seriously. I can't say it enough. You inspire me.
I taught my wife how to apply eyeliner...maybe it is a latent ability men have??