The people have spoken... in Site Updates

  • April 23, 2014, 11:01 a.m.
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  • Public

It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I am not a big man. Fletch Lives

All right, all right. You don't like the Pseudo-Like button. And I think many of you have valid points. The last thing I want is to "dumb down" the social interaction on this site. Forcing people to actually leave each other comments in order to interact with someone is probably a good thing.

So I'm going to yank the new button. You'll see it disappear soon.

However, the underlying mechanism will still remain in place. I'm just going to repurpose it. Instead of a "Like" feature, it's going to be a Recommend button.

Now, before you start screaming at me about how you would hate to see Prosebox devolve into a popularity contest, please hear me out on this...

First of all, let's all admit that anyone who posts anything on the internet is trying to get noticed. If you deny this simple observation, YOU ARE LYING.

OK. So I believe that quality content deserves to be noticed. I would like to see a system that actually works in this regard. I would like to have a "Spotlight" or "Trending Entries" section on the site, with content that deserves to be noticed. So what's the best way to make this happen and prevent the system from being abused?

MATH.

Enter the Recommend button. It's not a Like button. It's not a button to mark your visit like a dog on a fire hydrant. It's a button you use sparingly, when you read an entry that you think others would enjoy. You are casting your vote. It will not be shared with others that you voted it up. The person you voted for won't even know unless you tell them.

This will combine with other criteria to determine how well an entry ranks on a Spotlight list:

  • Newer users will be weighted heavier (hey, new people need some love when they are getting started)
  • How recently the entry was published will add weight (things will drop off over time)
  • The more you vote for the same person's entries, the less weight your vote will carry
  • Votes from people who are not regular readers will carry additional weight

So basically, you can't conspire with your friends to recommend all of each other's entries, because it will become utterly ineffective.

Thoughts? Heartburn?

EDIT:

Additional thoughts based on feedback:

  • Privacy levels will still be honored. Voting on Friends Only entries would be pointless since the whole point of this is discovering things you might not notice otherwise, so there will be no Recommend button ever on Friends Only (and obviously Private). Members Only entries would not show up publicly (pretty much the way they do not currently on the Latest listing page).
  • Yes, I'll provide an option for people to opt out for entries, or even as a default.
  • The weighted new user thing will be scratched. If anything, being an established member of the community will give your votes more weight.

perfunctory April 23, 2014

Math is always the right answer. Sounds intriguing! Love the weighted parameters.

Deleted user April 23, 2014

i like this idea.

blackpropaganda April 23, 2014

This is a much better idea - I like the way things are developing

Deleted user April 23, 2014

I like this as I'm looking for a few new people to read. Would be great to see that. I wouldn't mind the kudos button as a function to like others notes, but to like an entry is pretty impersonal, it's almost worse than leaving a blank note.

Deleted user April 23, 2014

I like this idea, but then I liked the Like button idea, too. Sometimes you just don't have anything to contribute, but you like what someone wrote. Some of the notes I leave sound a bit awkward to me....either way, though, I'm okay with it..

TellTaleHeart April 23, 2014

Like Reader's Choice, but with mathiness. I like it! I mean, kudos? I'm confused.

donut TellTaleHeart ⋅ April 23, 2014

heheheh.

Deleted user April 23, 2014

While I really like this concept, better than the "kudos" idea even, I really think you should do what you want with your website. I'm all for a democracy, but it's still your site and I would like to see what your vision for this place is.

simple mind Deleted user ⋅ April 23, 2014

Thanks. :) Sometimes I'm not even sure what my vision is, so I do value the input of the community. I don't think it hurts to try to please the target audience.

Deleted user simple mind ⋅ April 23, 2014

I don't either as long as you aren't sacrificing your own creativity. :) Well, depending on what you want to do, anyway. lol

Deleted user Deleted user ⋅ April 23, 2014

+1

ConnieK April 23, 2014

New (fake) diaries will be opened and other ways to abuse the system will be cooked up. I thought OD's recommended list was little more than a politics board. I don't think newer users should be weighted heavier. All votes should be equal, but if you want to delete votes from those who are obviously cramming the box, I heartily applaud you.

simple mind ConnieK ⋅ April 23, 2014

I don't think it will be perfect, and I'm sure I'll have to tweak the parameters in my magic formula over time. But the whole idea of weighted parameters is that it makes it much more difficult to game the system. If nobody recommends entries tied to new bogus accounts, the weight of being a new user alone will not elevate them above established users that are being recommended. It would be a slight bump, so to speak.

Etoile Filante April 23, 2014

I really like this idea!!! xXx

Deleted user April 23, 2014

Perhaps a limit on how many recommendations you can make per week. I'd say 1 per week? That will make people use their recommendations for things they really want to recommend.

I also don't want new users to have a heavier vote weight because as ConnieK points out, people will create sock-puppet diaries to recommend themselves.

And finally, please make a way for us to opt out of the system if we want, or make the 'spotlighted' list Members Only. Sure, we all want to be noticed---but noticed by WHO? I don't want to be noticed outside this little community at all.

simple mind Deleted user ⋅ April 23, 2014

I think the privacy level of the entry would determine the scope, the same as it does now. A Friends Only entry wouldn't be eligible for voting. A Members Only entry would only show up if you are logged into your account.

I don't think I'll put a limit on how often you can vote, but similar to the weighting ideas above, the more you vote, the less your vote actually counts for. Those who vote sparingly, and particularly for readers they are less familiar with, will be much more effective than blanket voters.

Deleted user simple mind ⋅ April 23, 2014

Both of those solutions work for me.

Nash April 23, 2014

Yes, I was less than enthusiastic about the kudos button. I think this is a smart alternative.

Deleted user April 23, 2014

Also, we should be able to mark individual entries of ours as NOT RECOMMENDABLE.

Nash Deleted user ⋅ April 23, 2014

What G said, and she is always saying stuff.

Deleted user April 23, 2014

You have got a good point. Please ensure that the recommendation mechanism works well within the context of 'public', 'friends only', 'members only' type restrictions.

Thanks for your hard work and flexibility to adapt.

Jigger April 23, 2014

Love it. Love you. Carry on.

banker chick April 23, 2014

This is great. I used to love the RC section of OD, back before it got all clogged up with spam and politics. I'll be interested to see what kind of entries come up now.

Emmy Lou banker chick ⋅ April 27, 2014

This!

Manda Melle April 23, 2014

I didn't mind the kudos button(well aside from the name lol), but I like the recommended entry more, kinda like Reader's Choice back in the OD days.

Loki April 23, 2014

  • this sounds like an interesting idea. Very reader's choice-y! But a nice way to come across new diaries, and new people to read. =] Oh, speaking of which. . . Any thought on the "random" option?
Deleted user April 23, 2014

Nothing on a social networking site is going to go over well with everyone. This is a social networking site...as you said, you don't put things on the INTERNET if you don't want the attention that comes with doing something like that. Do what makes you happy, let people complain (because they always will, no matter what you do), and enjoy your chunk of the webbernet.

Jack April 23, 2014

I have heartburn, but it has to do with the Indian food I had for lunch. I love the idea of a Recommend button. I'd have to ponder a bit more about the efficacy about the algorithm, but in general, I approve.

Who's Laughing Now? April 23, 2014

Readers Choice and Circles. Worked fine for us back on OD. I know you want to be different, but if it ain't broke...

Plus, what about those who don't get recommended? Do they get pushed into obscurity? I mean, since all entries make the front page anyway, with a few lines as a sort of description, it's fairly easy to find something you might enjoy reading already. I don't think this will help writers; I think it'll divide them. Sort them into "popular" and "unpopular".

Remember, "popularity" means very little.

simple mind Who's Laughing Now? ⋅ April 23, 2014

In my opinion Reader's Choice on OD was broken. It was way too easy to give your buddy a pat on the back and suddenly that person is "Reader's Choice". What I'm trying to do is separate user popularity from content popularity. Maybe you have a user who writes pure dreck 90% of the time. But one day she is suddenly inspired and writes something so beautiful it brings people to tears. It's something worth sharing, and that's the whole idea. Elevate popular content, not users.

Just another man's opinion, of course.

Who's Laughing Now? simple mind ⋅ April 23, 2014

Oh, of course.

ConnieK simple mind ⋅ April 23, 2014

YES YES YES!!!! EXACTLY the philosophy that OD lacked. RC or Recommended should be for what one considers superior writing, whether it is for a turn of a phrase, subject matter, or emotional appeal. It should NOT be for political opinion (or at least used sparingly...there's enough political opinion from the under-informed as it is), it should NOT be to get your pal's diary going, and it should NOT be a forum for creating debate. i.e.: talking trash about homosexuality (or praising it, for that matter) should not be recommended but a poignant vignette on how it affects a life (an experience in a bar, the pain of coming out, etc) should be. A screed on your dumb co-workers shouldn't be recommended but a funny story about Ditzy Donna in accounting should. And really bad poetry should be passed by, but a beautiful piece that flows should be posted (subjective, of course, but most people can recognize painful poetry, I think).

Who's Laughing Now? April 23, 2014

Just one man's opinion, of course.

Deleted user April 23, 2014

I can deal with this. /shades

Caty Shark April 23, 2014

Like it. I found a favourite favourite from that kind of thing over at the other place (the magnificent Oob, how I still miss her) and I'd love to discover more of what's worth discovering. Kudos natch.

Starhawk April 23, 2014

That is a much more high quality idea. I like every bit of it.

Hypnotica April 23, 2014

I 'like' this. See what I did there?

Emmy Lou Hypnotica ⋅ April 27, 2014

Like!

Emmy Lou Hypnotica ⋅ April 27, 2014

+1 etc

LeftisRight April 23, 2014

How will others be able to read the entry if the PB is members or friends only?

Sleepless Drifter April 23, 2014

I like it :-)

vinyl April 23, 2014

Prosereddit!

Lepetit pumpkinesque April 23, 2014

This is great but what I really want is to be able to download my diary. I am seriously have PTSD over the sunk ship that was OD and I just want to make sure I can save this junk should anything happen, I have since last August on this site. (Whine bitch rant bitch whine) I'm sorry. I do like this new feature!

simple mind Lepetit pumpkinesque ⋅ April 23, 2014

While there's still much to do in that area, I actually have some cool stuff going on in the background that will make backups painless when they are available. In other words, I'm architecting things in such a way that a mad rush to back things up will have zero effect on site performance. (backups and searches get their own server someday! Woot!)

Lepetit pumpkinesque simple mind ⋅ April 23, 2014

Yay! Thank you! I know you are Doing so much here and also have like a child and a life (and those monsters are totally time consuming and soul sucking on top of being wonderful) so thank you, I mean it!

synapse simple mind ⋅ April 25, 2014

Good. I have been counting on you to develop a backup feature.

TruNorth April 23, 2014

Lets give it a try.

Deleted user April 23, 2014

This guy. I want to send him rainbows and unicorns for being so awesome.

Deleted user April 23, 2014

Love this :)

Cats Rule from OD April 23, 2014

my personal preference would be something to let the person know that I was there and read it. It is frustrating to think that nobody cared about what you wrote because NO comments were left. a 'like' button would've at least let you know that. For people that write in public journals like PB, there IS a need to know someone cared. A recommendation button? I wouldn't want my entries to be recommended only to know that someone actually read what I had to share. Just a thought since you wrote:
First of all, let's all admit that anyone who posts anything on the internet is trying to get noticed. If you deny this simple observation, YOU ARE LYING.
Maybe offer it? A Like button, or leave it off if you don't in the settings? I would love that.

Leanne 🌈 April 23, 2014

Still not for me I for one love being under the radar that is why most of my entries are FO......I will opt out. Thanks as always um yeah I pass on this big time.

Domino April 23, 2014

I liked the like button, but I suppose this does sound better. (And I do hate those people on FB who like every blooming thing you post.)

Deleted user April 23, 2014

I personally never saw the point in "liking" "recommending" or "spotlighting." If I'm going to enjoy something I'm going to enjoy it whether others do or don't enjoy it themselves. If someone's that interesting, they'll get noticed on their own.

Sapphire's Gaze April 23, 2014

Perfect. :)

Deleted user April 23, 2014

As a still new user, I like this. I enjoy seeing what others are reading. Plus, it's hard for me to find new people to read. :\ So perhaps someone will catch my attention.

woman in the moon April 23, 2014

Ummmm. What's good writing?

Deleted user woman in the moon ⋅ April 23, 2014

exactly, i am wondering that too. because beauty [in this context : good writing] is in the eye of the beholder.

but then again, let's see how these new functions pan out.

hoops April 23, 2014

If only there were a way I could "recommend" that others read this entry.

middle age pearl April 23, 2014

Trying to make all the people happy is just a waste. I do know this, someone or several ones will always have a gripe. I'm suspect the gripes outnumbers the "kudos". sorry couldn't resist.

QueSeraSera April 23, 2014

i like the recommended button hope it doesnt get spammed up like it did with OD. the last few years there were the same people voting over and over the same people then spam entries. i am all for it!!

Princess Buttercup April 23, 2014

I didn't even notice the previous Like button? but then I have not been paying much attention lately. So that is totally on me. Like the sounds of the new recommend feature though :)

Reading_Blankie 📚 April 24, 2014

Hey Leader Guy! Cool idea. I wasn't really fond of the "like" button. Feels more like facebook.
I like this current thought of yours; I just hope people don't get their "chonies" in a knot over who gets featured and who doesn't.

Vamp April 24, 2014

I like it!

Everything Good Rebecca April 24, 2014

I've missed a way to recommend special entries for others who may have missed them, and I like the weighted math as you described in the additional comments at the end. I only just got here to this and didn't see whatever other new thing you had tried. I'm missing something to indicate where a writer is located if they will share because the various countries make different settings intriguing for us as readers. Location and age of the writer could be interesting to know but recommendations are a wonderful addition to this site!

Deleted user April 24, 2014

Hey I made a Friends Only entry and it is not showing on the front page, I am not sure why. I made sure my book was not private.

simple mind Deleted user ⋅ April 24, 2014

Only Public and Members Only (if you are logged in) will show up on the front page. Friends Only will only show up in the Bookmarks list if someone you've added as a friend has you bookmarked.

Deleted user simple mind ⋅ April 24, 2014

Thank you!

Notkieran April 24, 2014

Sounds like a good way to prevent the old Reader's Choice explosions.

crystal butterfly April 24, 2014

I liked the like button. I like that all the new entries people write show up on the bookmarked list and I like being able to reply to notes. :)

Deleted user April 25, 2014

I was always a fan of stalking the 'interests' section on OD, when I wanted to find new users and interesting reads. I'm hoping we'll see this on PB, soon :)

brian April 25, 2014

As long as people stop nominating themselves for readers choice. . .

Honestleigh April 25, 2014

I liked the idea of a 'like' button because soooo many people 'leave a comment' but say nothing, only to note their name. Wtf is the point of that. .. I guess actually the point is to get attention themselves. (is that a word? idk.) but yeah... I can see the Recommended thing being useful.

Krud Honestleigh ⋅ April 25, 2014

I can't vouch for everyone's motivations, but the only situation where I might leave a name and no comment is as a form of silent solidarity on a serious entry where anything I might actually say would seem inane after whatever they said in their post. Sometimes you just want the person to know that you read what they had to say.

Krud April 25, 2014

I have not read ANY of the above comments, so if echo someone else's sentiment, it is purely coincidence. Or a sign. Or something. But anyway.

I'm sorry I missed out on whatever kerfuffle this caused, as I've no idea now how I would have responded, but that's my own fault for being out of the loop.

Anyway, I like the idea of "Recommend" over "Like," simply because the word "Like" has been ruined by Facebook. (No, really, it has.) Also, "recommend" seems to be putting yourself out there a bit more (except it's anonymous, so I suppose it doesn't really. But in theory it does.) There are things I like that I wouldn't necessarily recommend.

I'm glad you're willing to test things out on your site, and also willing to listen to people during the process.

elaine2 April 26, 2014

I like that you ask for input and are responsive to the feedback. Even if OD reappeared, I would stay here. This community is evolving very nicely.

elaine2 April 26, 2014

Would you please consider one day having some sort of function that would allow us to register by age or location? For example, I am a female who is 62 years of age. I would like to read the posts of other females 50+ from around the world because I love hearing about the differences in our experiences. Thank you.

Leslie April 26, 2014

What's the difference between this and the Readers Choice on OD? I'm not sure what people's beef was with it.

HarleyBabe April 27, 2014

Shouldn't it be for whatever people think is worth reading regardless if it is politics or whatever? Would you please consider creating more color schemes? Something like black background with only white? I don't even know if this is where I should bring that up, but my poor eyes want to be able to read everyone on here, and it's just hard to do so with the colors that are available now.

offmychest April 28, 2014

I was told there would be no math.

Rootless April 28, 2014

I don't understand this somehow....I've logged in on a few different devices and can't see this new feature anywhere on any entries on any devices. I'm confused....

Fawkes Gal Rootless ⋅ May 01, 2014

Me too.

Raven May 01, 2014

Everything sounds good. <3

Mrs.Kristen.Canon May 05, 2014

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